Short Form appears for first reference instead of Long Form

Hi, 

I have the following appearing in my document once citations are formatted.

[1]Roger Gryson, “Les sources,” in Tyconii Afri Expositio Apocalypseos: Accedunt eiusdem Expositionis a quodam retractatae fragmenta Taurinensia, ed. Roger Gryson, Corpus Christianorum, Series Latina, 107A (Turnhout, Belgium: Brepols Publishers, 2011), 20-24.

[2]Ibid., 24-73.

[3]About Gryson’s reconstruction, see Gryson, “La présente édition,” 74-102.

The problem is that the last reference “La presente edition” is supposed to be a long form as the first appearance of this reference.  It is another part of the book referenced in footnote 1.  I checked the style and repeated sources says not to do anything special.  So am I missing something or is there a bug?

By the way I experimented by switching the references for 1 and 3 and reproduced the problem.  Another experiment was placing the references in the same footnote.  It did the long form then!  Too bad that isn’t how I need the references laid out.

Open the Gryson record in your library. Is “La présente édition" in the Short Title field?

If you are using one of the newer versions of EndNote, the style allows the user to define how a citation should look in a repeated endnote or footnote.

Open your style in the style Editor (Edit > Output Styles Edit “[Name of selected Style]” to open the style in the Style Editor.)

Click on Templates under the Footnotes section.

On the right side you will see the various reference types and their footnote definitions. When you look at the Short Form definitions are they set to use the Short Title?

Hi,

The short title field is empty for both references that I used to produce the problem.

I am attaching my style, a modified Turabian, in case that might help.

I have also attached an endnote XML file with the two offending references.

By the way, I am using Endnote X6 in conjunction with MS Word 2010 on a Windows 7 machine.

Turabian Bibliography TIasIS.ens (127 KB)
Test Library.xml (4.56 KB)

Thanks for the files.

The two Gryson records contain almost identical information, causing EndNote to see the two references as the same source. The style is set to use the short form when the same source is repeated.

You can change a setting in the EndNote preferences to force EndNote not to see the two references as the same source.

If you are on a Windows computer click on Edit > Preferences > Duplicates. (On a Mac click on EndNote > Preferences > Duplicates.)

You can add Pages as one of the fields EndNote looks at when determining whether references are duplicates. Since the pages fields are different in the two references EndNote will no longer see the second Gryson reference as the same source, and it will display the entire citation the first time it apears in a footnote.

Unless something has changed recently, those setting do not affect the handling of duplicates in use, only when searching for duplicates in the library. 

See these Endnote help file information and the Note:  I am not sure the first is absolutely accurate, but you can try adding information in one of the other fields to see if you can get the two references to be distinguished, as Henry suggested with pages.  

  • References are considered duplicates if they are the same reference type (such as Journal Article or Book) and the following fields are identical: Author, Year, Title, Secondary Title (Journal, Newspaper, Magazine, Book Title, Series Title, Conference Name, and so on), Volume, Issue, and Pages.
  •  
  • Note: The Duplicates Preferences settings  do not apply to the “Merge Duplicates in Bibliography” setting defined in Formatting Preferences. The duplicates are never inserted into the bibliography.

Hello,

I wonder if you have found the reason of or solution to this problem?

This is exactly what I have just noticed in my file – two different Book Sections

from the same work and by the same author, and the other one shows up

with the short tile as its first instance.

Also, just as you noted, when they are in the same footnote, it displays correctly

in the long form. But even if they are in two consecutive footnotes, the second one

is in the correct long form – only if there is another footnote in between, it changes

to short form. This is quite annoying!

Best regards,

Rafal

Hello again,

I am not sure anyone is still following this old thread – but as I have now found out the reason and possible solution, I thought it might be helpful to others who might google to this exchange as I have.

When checking if a reference is cited for the first time or a short form sould be used, EndNote does not check the main title in Book Section reference types but the secondary title (plus author and year). There for in cases when the same author has two or more papers in the same book, the second paper is treated as already cited and appears in the short for. The exceptions are when it is cited in the same footnote or footnote immediately following (probably a different algorithm is used for “ibid.” appearance which does involve the main title.

My solution is to add a character which does not appear elsewhere in the text of the paper/book  (eg. @#$% or a string like “hhh”) to the publication year – and remove it from the final version converted to text. It may alternatively be added to the author or book title (secondary) but perhaps that would be a less “clean” solution.

The problem is now: how to find all such records in the database to modify them?

You can change a setting in the EndNote preferences to force EndNote not to see the two references as the same source.

If you are on a Windows computer click on Edit > Preferences > Duplicates. (On a Mac click on EndNote > Preferences > Duplicates.)

Hi,

Thank you for the suggestion. Actually, the same was suggested by HenryLJ above – but I have tested it again now and it does not work. Clearly, this is not the algorith used for checking whether a reference has already been cited earlier in the text. I had “Title” checked in the preferences but EN did not consider two papers (with different titles, of course) in the same volume of papers as different. I have now checked also “Secondary Title” which caused EN to ask me to identify a number of references again – which I did but the result was the same: another paper by the same author in the same book is still treated as the same and displayed using “short form”.

The problem was well presented by malachirobertso in the original posting. To restate it in simplified form: if there are two references in the database:

Roger Gryson, "Les sources," [in] Tyconii Afri Expositio Apocalypseos, Brepols Publishers, 2011, 2-24

Roger Gryson, “La présente édition,” [in] Tyconii Afri Expositio Apocalypseos, Brepols Publishers, 2011, 74-102

 

then when citing them in footnotes, there are two possible cases:

  1. If the second citation (either of them, of course) is in the same footnote or in the footnote immediately following it – it appears in the expected “long form” (with secondary title, publisher, pages, etc.).

  2. If the second citation is in a different footnote which does not follow immediately, then it is diplayed in “short form” even though it was not cited earlier, e.g.: “Gryson, La présente”.

Thus EN seems to recognize that the two references are different in Case 1, but thinks they are the same in Case 2.

Thanks for your interest!

Can you put an extra space which would be less obvious than a character, so you don’t need to remove them?  I am going to put a link to this thread in the “suggestions” forum, and if you comment over there, maybe they can fix this annoying glitch.