Thai & Malay Names

I wonder if anyone has faced a similar “issue” or would have a suggestion as to how the following could be resolved.

I need to refer to Thai and Malay authors in my work. As an example for this discussion, we’ll use the following reference:

Pasuk Phongpaichit (2004). Thailand under Thaksin: Another Malaysia? Working Paper, No. 109. Perth: Asia Research Centre, Murdoch University.

Note that Pasuk is the given name whilst Phongpaichit is the family name of this individual.

This would be the “correct” format for the reference in the bibliography - note that the name is cited in full with no comma’s. Citations of Western names follow the convention of “Family name, Given name”, e.g.

Alford, Peter. “Mahathir Does It His Way.” The Australian, 22 October 1999.

In the body of the work, I am using Harvard-style in-line citation. For a Western name, the citation should appear as follows:

blah blah blah blah blah (Alford 1999).

For a Thai or Malay name, I would like it to appear as follows:

blah blah blah blah blah (Pasuk 1999).

At the moment, given how names are entered in the Endnote database, I suspect I would not be able to have names appearing in both ways as desired above. For Thai and Malay names, they would have to be keyed in the conventional way, i.e. " Family name, Given name", resulting in the “correct” in-line citation format but NOT in the bibliography, or I can key them in as " Given name Family name,", resulting in the “correct” format in the bibliography but not in the body of the text.

Does anyone know how I can have my cake and eat it too in this case?

I would appreciate any ideas that anyone might have.

Thanks in advance!

the only way I can figure out how to achieve what you are looking for, is to create two custom fields (I tested this in Journal, you would have to create the custom fields for other reference types, if necessary) which have the name the way you want it to appear.  Then with the appropriate link adjacent and separate characters with those and the punctuation, you can get those fields instead of Author (which I would leave blank in the record) in the citation and Bibliography section.  You also need to change the anonymous author setting to leave author blank.

So if you use Custom 3 for Malay_First and Custom 4 for Malay_Whole, the citation would look something like this:

(|Author*Custom 3*|Year|,*pp*Cited Pages|)                       where * are link adjacent and | are forced separations

and the journal template would look like this

|Malay_Whole.*|Author. “Title.” Review of Reviewed Item. Journal| Volume|, no. Issue| (Year)|: Pages|.      where * are link adjacent and | are forced separations (I didn’t put in all the *s for the remainder of the template, I was editing the Chicago 15th style which I may have altered previously for another test). 

Message Edited by Leanne on 08-07-2008 10:57 AM


Thank you ever so much for this - I’m afraid I didn’t notice your reply until just now…!

Your suggestion is extremely helpful and I can definitely see how I should tweak the records and the templates to get  the result I want, however, I do have a couple of follow-up questions:

(1) Why would you leave the “author” field blank in the records?

(2) If you left did leave the “author” field blank, then why do you have it appearing in your templates?

Thanks heaps again - I’m sorry it took me so long to see your reply - I’ve been very distracted…!

(1) Well, I figured that was the only way to get the two types of names to be treated differently for Citation and Bibliography, and (2) not have to have a new reference template for journal, book etc, which would pull the author information correctly.

As I reconsider this, it would be far far easiler to treat the Thai and Mayan names like commercial names and add a trailing comma in the author field of the record, but then the citation would include the full name rather than just the first name. I am assuming there are a lot of these - otherwise you could just edit the manuscript at the end, to correct the citations.  If you use the solution below and put a name in the author field, there wouldn’t be a way to get the citation to be treated differently. 

Alternatively, you could create a new reference type for these records, but would need to do this for each reference type you were going to need (i.e. a Mayan journal type, a Mayan book type, etc).  Put just the first name in the author field, and then create another field for the Author-in-Bibliography - and then use that field instead of the author field in the template for the Thai/Mayan reference type in the bibliography. The author field would be used to create the citation, but in the bibliography it would pull the information from the new field. That might be easier!  Copy the journal template to the newly created Mayan template, and replace the Author with Author-in-Bibliography field.

Sorry, I worked thru this solution as I wrote.  The actual template would be less complicated, as it would not have to choose between two fields and the associated punctuation. 

Message Edited by Leanne on 05-19-2009 10:19 AM

Leanne - I think I will end up using that last method you suggested. I will not create new reference types but I will create a new custom field for authors’ names to use in citations - this I will have to fill for all references, which will be a pain but is probably the price I will have to pay for “cultural sensitivity”. I will use the standard author field for the bibliography but where Thai and Malay names are concerned I will enter them like commercial names so that they appear “correctly” without the comma in the middle.

BUT before I do this, I will see how many of these references I will end up having in the bibliography because it may well end up being easier to just remove the commas (in the middle of the Thai and Malay names) manually…!

Thanks again!